Why We Fight

Figleaf’s thought-provoking post on perceived masculinity got linked to by none other than Ann Althouse yesterday, in case any of our regular readers were wondering why the comments to that post contained much more troglodytic bullshit than usual.

Thing is, you guys got spared the worst of it. Me and Ozy were looking over the spam filter, clucking our tongues and going “My, my, my” at the lizard-brain ugliness that didn’t meet our comment guidelines.

Then we figured, “Ah, fuck it, let’s have a laugh.” Below are some of our personal favorites from the torrent of hateful crap that Ms. Althouse’s readers saw fit to bless us with. TRIGGER WARNING for vehement transphobia, homophobia, gender shaming, and a really weird genital obsession. Names have been removed because someday some of these folks might want their self-respect back.

You all are mad because your hero Obama is such a pussy

“He’s manly enough. For an Air Force pansy.”
That’s tough talk coming from a tofu-eating girly-man.

You prove my supposition that your hatred for Perry stems from your recognition that he is a real man, while you are not. Gotta tear down those who, by their mere existence, shame you.

Well, for one thing, he isn’t a Democrat. Seriously, Democrat women are more masculine than Democrat malse (they don’t actually qualify as “men”). I mean just look at those dudes. They are a serious bunch of femmes. It is just about impossible to be a man and be a Democrat. Sorry boys, that is just a fact. I will give it to you on your women though. They do have some balls. Literally. Look at that hag Waserman Schults. Or Hillary Clinton. Also, the reason you people are so hateful of women like Michele Bachman or Sarah Palin (other than the fact that they look so much better than your hogs) is because they didn’t abort their children. You hate that, because you sick fucks love you some abortion. The only good baby is a dead baby in your book.

Crying “Racism!” is the first refuge of the progressive scoundrel.

And my personal favorite, this is just an amazing piece of wild bullshit, hitting so many hateful, stupid, and wrong notes in a relatively small space:

“Put it another way: if you could choose any kind of man to be would you choose his kind of “manliness” over all others?”

All others? Likely not. Over the effeminate, uncoordinated, non-athletic goof-President we currently see flitting down the stairs like a Key West “performance artist?” Uh, yeah, in a heartbeat. Hell, Perry’s even more of a man than Michelle Obama, and you can tell what “she’s” packing by the way “she” walks.

I think of these comments as a museum of remembrance. Every time you start thinking “Oh, c’mon, gender policing isn’t that crazy” or “People really aren’t that stupid about genitals and gender, are they?” or “Traditional notions of masculinity aren’t usually bundled with a bunch of hateful bullshit, right?” then you can look at this post and go “Oh, shit, my mistake, that’s actually how a lot of people think.”

This crap right here? This is why this blog exists. Because these people are out there. They are voting. They are in relationships. They are (brace yourself) raising children. And I think that the more they realize that people are pointing at them and laughing, the less damage their painfully limited and utterly worthless ideas of gender will do.

About noahbrand

Noah Brand is a mysterious figure with a very nice hat.
This entry was posted in femmephobia, lighthearted, noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz, quotes, sexism, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

37 Responses to Why We Fight

  1. Sam says:

    You know, I whole heartedly agree with pointing out the ridiculousness of such comments. But change is not going to happen by further division. Remember when Obama got into that gun gaffe early on in the campaign, when he got hit for saying the truth about the fear of certain people? He was right, although they obviously didn’t want to hear it, and he (for political reasons) obviously shouldn’t have been caught saying so.

    The problem is addressing those fears, and accepting them as real fears, however bizarre they may appear to oneself. Addressing and reducing fear is the cornerstone of every kind of change management – once the amygdala takes over, there’s not much rationality left in humans.

    And with respect to masculinity and men, I think the *fun-da-men-tal* fear is that most men cannot believe they can be wanted when they aren’t needed. And that is, I believe, because, however much we are influenced by our sexuality, we aren’t in tune with our sexuality, and we do not, on a very existential level, believe that women could possible want us the way we want women.

    And as we all know liking oneself is the first step of being liked/wanted by other people. Whatever men say, I’m fairly certain that that’s a messahe they have internalised.

    And it is this message that makes them cling to a world in which they’re neeed, because they can’t fathom one in which they’re wanted.

  2. noahbrand says:

    @Sam: That’s a really interesting way of looking at it. I feel like you’re articulating something that’s been tickling nebulously at the edges of my consciousness. That wanted/needed dichotomy feels like it ties in with a lot of other bad stuff we’ve talked about. I’m gonna think about that a bit.

    Of course, I’m still gonna mock the shit out of hateful asshats, ’cause I gotta be me.

  3. Titfortat says:

    And I think that the more they realize that people are pointing at them and laughing, the less damage their painfully limited and utterly worthless ideas of gender will do.(Noah)

    Honey and vinegar……the thing is, until people are ready for change mocking them just makes them want to bring the ‘fight’ even more. Maybe as men we need to be the ones who turn the other cheek rather than spit.

  4. Jim says:

    “And with respect to masculinity and men, I think the *fun-da-men-tal* fear is that most men cannot believe they can be wanted when they aren’t needed.”

    I’m normally not a fan of the fale consciousness, meme, but this isone of those areas where i cna make an exception. This belief you mention is real, it’s common, and it endures depsite being toxic bullshit becasue this is the reality these men live. And they live it because they are socialized and indoctrinated into it, by women to begin with, but just as much by boys when they are boys and men when they are men.

    And while it may or may not be their fault, I may or may not have time to wait while they pull their heads out of their asses, “take the red pill” as Paul Elam says it, and heal. Because they constitute a threat to me and people I love, I can’t afford to tolerate their nonsense until it disspates on its own.

    So that’s why I agree with Noah:
    “Of course, I’m still gonna mock the shit out of hateful asshats, ’cause I gotta be me.”

    And meanwhile they should be damned grateful its only mockery. And only words.

  5. Jim says:

    false consciousness meme.

    “Fale consciousness, meme”? Sheesh.

  6. ozymandias42 says:

    There are more! For instance:

    “I find it incredibly funny to read the tear-soaked anti-Perry posts from the wussy-woo metrosexual males here. I bet you all wear helmets when you ride your bikes. Face it–you really don’t hate Perry, you’re just jealous! You’d gladly give a testicle to be half the man he is. Or half the man Sarah Palin is.

    “Actually, you’d probably give both testicles. You don’t use them, do you?”

    And then a second post from the guy complaining that we are SILENCING DISSENT! and that because we allowed “fuck Rick Perry” we should also allow this hateful pile of misandric, gender-policing bullshit. Although I really have no idea how anyone could read this blog and think we silence dissent: I know the comment threads are often full of ideas I find personally and politically repugnant.

  7. noahbrand says:

    And meanwhile they should be damned grateful its only mockery. And only words.

    Easy there, Jim, that could be taken as a physical threat. I’m you didn’t mean it that way, but tone goes missing over text and all that.

    As to the validity of mocking them, I’m going to go with Oscar Wilde on this one:

    As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular.

    Tell them their policies all fail and that they’re actively hurting people, and they’ll go “Tee-hee, we’re offending the liberals!” Point out that they’re just embarrassing themselves and everyone thinks they look stupid, and maybe that will penetrate a little.

  8. noahbrand says:

    Bike helmets? That’s the new thing to be pissy about? Christ, I can’t keep up with the clown car. That may be dumber than the dijon mustard thing they spent a month wanking themselves frothy about.

    As to silencing dissent, it’s always only about silencing THEIR personal dissent. Once again, some people can grasp that there are people other than them, and some people can’t.

  9. Jim says:

    “Honey and vinegar……the thing is, until people are ready for change mocking them just makes them want to bring the ‘fight’ even more. ”

    There can be a tactical usefulness in angering your opponent, in manipulating his emotions:

    Sun Zi said:
    怒而撓之,卑而驕之
    If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

  10. Jim says:

    Oh, and I loved this one:

    ““He’s manly enough. For an Air Force pansy.”
    That’s tough talk coming from a tofu-eating girly-man.”

    By failing to identify and inter-service joke, the twit identified himself as a sabre-rattling civilian. Oooooh, talk all rough and tough and scare me!

  11. Jim says:

    “Easy there, Jim, that could be taken as a physical threat. ”

    Look at the demographics of these people. They have form when it comes to physical violence, up to and including secession. That’s what I was talking about. Perry is playing with people with a treasonable political ideology. If they don’t back down the nation may have to get phyiscal with them. And it will all be legal.

  12. noahbrand says:

    @Jim: Yeah, I also remember how well it went the last time a bunch of racist fuckbags got a boner for secession, but even so. One of the things we enjoy criticizing about the sort of creature who’d support Rick Perry is that they’re real quick to start ominously threatening violence and civil war. Indeed, I happen to think we’re right to criticize that despicable tendency, so let’s not join them on that merry-go-round, shall we?

  13. Jim says:

    “Indeed, I happen to think we’re right to criticize that despicable tendency, so let’s not join them on that merry-go-round, shall we?’

    I cling to a particle of trust in the rest of the American people and so I can hope that mocking and ridiculing these people will bring the rest of us around and they will just ignored into oblivion, with nothing physical happening.

    That just leaves the really damaged ones to do their lone wolf stuff. Timothy McVeigh had no organization whatever behind him, but he managed to do a lot of damage. There is a whole movement of people even further out than the Tea Party. They don’t form groups (any more, since that made them too easy to track) so law enforcement has to keep track of them individually. But there are lots of them and LE takes them seriously as a threat.

  14. Tobias says:

    “I bet you all wear helmets when you ride your bikes.”

    Little use though they may be sometimes, I like my brains where they are, thanks very much.

    On the subject of risking death, I often wonder if people believe action movie fight scenes are real, and act accordingly. Today my girlfriend and I watched “Serenity,” and I barely held it together when Mal was fighting the bad guy in Inara’s room – not because it was emotional, mind, but because the blows he was receiving should have shattered bone. Jayne should have died when River clocked him with the metal disk in the bar fight scene. Maybe they’re heroic enough to swallow pain, but neither of them should have been able to move.

    If you think being a manly man of manliness will spare you from compound skull fractures, concussions, dislocated shoulders, lethal internal bleeding, and god knows what else, then why wouldn’t you want to be one, and why wouldn’t you have contempt for anyone weak enough to suffer them?

  15. Schala says:

    Be Galuf from FF5! And die a badass death like him!

    He did do it to save the rest of the group though. And X-Death (the final boss and who he died to, even if mid-game) was ‘demonstrating his power’ or something.

  16. Izzy Peasy says:

    Sam, that is amazing. Such an important thing to say.

  17. debaser71 says:

    IMO to elicit change requires many different approaches, styles, and tones. Ridicule included.

    When people gang post like that on a thread they are doing so to reaffirm what they already believe…they do it to be part of the in-group.

  18. Titfortat says:

    they do it to be part of the in-group(debaser71)

    Aint that the truth. The problem is when you mock another group you may inadvertently alienate some of the group that may be open to change. The ones who arent ready for change just dig in and say “bring it on”. I know when I had my head way up my ass mockery would just want me to take it out and spit shit on the mocker.

  19. Cheradenine says:

    Sam, thanks for that excellent comment.

  20. ozymandias42 says:

    I ❤ Sam's comment.

    Titfortat: I would argue that people who come onto this blog to post that Obama is a pussy are… probably not reachable. At least not by me.

  21. Titfortat says:

    Ozy

    That is why you have the ability to moniter their comments, which I have no problem with. IMO it is worth questioning whether it is a good idea to outwardly mock individuals you know wont be coming around to your idea’s anytime soon. That is like poking the rabid dog and expecting not to get bit.

  22. Gaius says:

    I tend to look at the people who make comments like these the following way:

    If you don’t give respect, despite every opportunity, you don’t deserve respect.

    These folks live in the most affluent corner of the world. They have electricity and running water and state-of-the-art medical care and Internet connections, and they don’t have to steal or scrape food out of bare earth to get enough to eat. To my mind, that means they have EVERY OPPORTUNITY to respect other people, because when times aren’t bad, you have the luxury to be respectful.

    Well, they’ve blown it. None of those comments are respectful. Period. As far as I’m concerned, that means they forfeit all the privileges respectful people should get.

    Me? Owing to (accidental!) ignorance and inexperience, I’m not always respectful. But I try. I actually ask people, “What is the best way to respect you?” And I LISTEN to the response. I had a conversation with Valerie Keefe on this very blog in which I discovered that the words “male” and “female” have connotative meaning that I hadn’t grasped.

    I’ve used those words much more cautiously ever since.

    Check out the thread here, if you want proof: https://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/rejection-part-one/

    So, yeah, I try to be respectful; the only times I fail are when I lack experience and information. These folks? Not so much. And it pisses me so off that THEY are the mob and THEY are the ones with all the power. Bah!

  23. clarence says:

    There are two types of courage that the best men and women (though mostly men) have and they both have to be present for a male to be a good example of “manliness”.
    Physical and moral courage. Perry may have physical courage, his treatment of Willingham (and the whole issue of Innocence in Texas in general) shows he lacks moral courage. Why can’t those hateful goofs from Althouse understand that? He’s a disgusting human being who, if one can’t trust him to follow his professed religion -well, why shouldn’t one wonder what he really believes?

  24. clarence says:

    I should clarify that i think physical courage is more often exhibited by men and for two reasons:
    A. It’s expected of us, and not expected of the ladies.
    B. Men tend to be bigger and stronger and its easier to “mix it up” when you have a better chance of winning.

    In short, I’m not saying women can’t show physical courage, I’m saying its more prevalent among men for both good and bad reasons, particularly I think the social expectations. Women don’t usually feel the sting of being called coward for not fighting.
    I’m also of the opinion that moral courage is at least (and probably more) important than physical courage and Perry seems to lack that utterly.

  25. elementary_watson says:

    @noah: Ah, quoting Wilde, the sure sign of a non-manly man …

    Then again, I’ve got a T-Shirt saying “Born To Quote Wilde” on the back, so who am I to mock …

  26. Toysoldier says:

    There can be a tactical usefulness in angering your opponent, in manipulating his emotions:

    Sun Zi said:
    怒而撓之,卑而驕之
    If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

    That is a good tactic, which is why I suspect people like those who wrote the obnoxious comments rely on it so much. Some of them may believe those things, but most probably wrote those comments just to get under your skin, just as Sun Tzu advised.

  27. Velah says:

    Well said, Toysoldier. The internet will forever be full of trolls and those who’s intent is only to seek out and cause misery.

  28. I was preparing a post about Honour last night, when my Admin cut the internet. Which was actually a good thing because it was skewing slighty femmo-Spartan, which can be construed a certain way…

    Anyways, I’m gonna be controversial. From where I stand, Rick Perry is a Murderer. If certain US states are executing innocent civilians on phoney evidence, then that means they could accuse anyone, at any time, and that makes them corrupt. I don’t like that Idea. Luckily I’m British, so I don’t have to worry about this. And yet, I still worry.

    I worry for all the wrongly-convicted. I worry that if these people are using outdated methods, and catching the wrong people. It’s at times like this that the E-bomb rises up in my mind.

    “The E-Bomb?” I hear you all cry. Evil.

    “Governor” Perry, in my mind at least, has committed evil. An innocent man has gone to his death for a crime he did not commit, a fire he did not start. And all the trolls can do is say how unmanly WE are? Honourless toads!

    I’ll not go down the road of what I should do to these unworthy Arseholes. After all, Kids in blighty who went out looting are getting stiff sentences now. I don’t know where I’m going with this, so I’m gonna stop.

  29. Rachel says:

    i got maybe a quarter of the way through the comments (post-regulars, i mean) before i had to close the tab in disgust.

    had a lol at the person accusing figleaf of insulting texans, though. newsflash: rick perry does way more to undermine the actual honor and perceived sanity of texans at large than literally anyone on the internet ever could.

    seriously. fuck rick perry.

  30. marc2020 says:

    This right here is where the cracks in the armer of traditional gender and those who defend it begin to show. They feel the need to come over here and fill the comment section with nasty hate filled sniping.

    Aren’t these guys supposed to be against vulgar displays of emotion I mean isn’t it supposed to be a sign of weakness with them? Yet they flip out over one post even though when the entire MSM is kissing Governor Perry’s arse.

    I guess crippling insecurity coupled with the need to bully anyone who disagrees with you is part of trad masculinity now.

  31. Eagle33 says:

    And the people making those comments on that blog this post linked wonder why Republicans and The Right-Wing are marginalized.

    They do it to themselves.

  32. debaser71 says:

    regardless of tone, republicans and conservatives are wrong on most issues and in general reject reality

  33. Eagle, Debaser, Let us say Amen to that. 🙂

  34. unreal man says:

    “I bet you all wear helmets when you ride your bikes.”

    I nominate this to be the most epic fail of an insult of the year. This is seriously asking to be ridiculed. I could milk it until the end of time. Every time you forget something or make a mistake I’ll say “guess wearing a helmet would have been better after all”.

    Incidentally, I never wore a helmet but that’s out of laziness and overconfidence in my ability to avoid accidents. I was lucky – not manly.

  35. desipis says:

    If your goal is social justice, is it really helpful to play into the ‘fight’ framing of the debate, or taking on the tactics of ‘war’? Ridicule is a tactic intended to dehumanise the people on the ‘other side’ with the intent to foster mindless tribalistic combat. I’m not sure dehumanisation or tribalism (despite how tempting it might be) should be considered to be beneficial to the pursuit of social justice, particularly given it’s just going to further cement such views in those who hold them.

    I think Sam’s comment, attempting to understand why people hold such views, is a much more constructive way to approach the issue.

  36. Gaius says:

    Because social justice is based on respect.

    These creatures do not show respect, ergo they are not entitled to respect. Rather, they can and should be treated as what they are: pests or vermin.

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