Monday Roundup

Noah Brand

At the Good Men Project: Barney Frank leaves Congress.

Ozy Frantz

At the Good Men Project: my recent post about the prison-industrial complex is rerun. Not much point in reading it unless you are very, very interested in finding how awful and racist people can get in the comments section. (Pretty damn racist.)

Other

The fabulous Clarisse Thorn’s book Confessions of a Pickup Artist Chaser is available in paperback. Buy one for yourself! For your partners! For your dog! For your mom! (Probably not for your mom, unless your mom’s super-cool.)

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11 Responses to Monday Roundup

  1. I just wrote about Mitt Romney speaking at Liberty University, which has the true believers all riled up, even if the opportunists who run the place sold out THEIR beliefs a long time ago:

    http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2012/04/liberty-university-hypocrisy-under.html

  2. Skull Bearer says:

    I found this excellent critique of Clarisse Thorn’s books here: http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-854

    And excellent deconstruction and comparison of the book and why it maybe doesn’t quite hold up.

  3. Tamen says:

    Was that an preemptive statement about the commentariat at GMP? Or have they flushed the thread since that article only had two comments when I just now checked?

  4. ozymandias42 says:

    Tamen: Preemptive.

  5. Danny says:

    My thoughts on possible roadblocks that make the advice from Jeffery Platts’ post on a Good Men Project post from a few weeks ago. With myself as an example.

    (http://dannyscorneroftheuniverse.blogspot.com/2012/04/roadblocks.html).

    Things get pretty gloomy though.

  6. Dr. Anonymous says:

    @Skull Bearer

    What is so great about that critique? I can just tune in to pandagon or shakesville and read the very same rehash of Nice Guy(tm), social pressure (on females) and you get the sexual attention that you deserve. What differentiates this article from that?

  7. Danny says:

    I’m kinda with Dr. Anonymous on that one. I didn’t fully read it but from what I read it pretty much sounds like what the Dr. said. Some feminists simply don’t like the idea of someone:
    1. Not instantly declaring the entire PUA community a bunch of embitter men.
    2. Finding some legitimate concerns, ideas, and values in the PUA community.

    From near the end:
    The Game is a problematic text and there’s no denying it’s a problematic text but one can choose to find value in problematic texts, as entertainment or for historical interest or for personal reasons or whatever, and that’s perfectly acceptable.
    This sounds like they are saying that The Game is a problematic text and based on that the only value that can be found in it is value that someone decides to find. As if the value isn’t there on its own merit.

    And of course when all else fails in a gender conversation, invoke racism!

  8. Dr. Anonymous says:

    I have actually read “The Game”, I read it more as an insane adventure story. Kind of like Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas.

  9. Thomas says:

    Re. the review of Confession

    I think the review has some merits, if you ignore the unreflected anti Nice-Guy tirade in the beginning.

    Clarisse updated her book today and added a part about the PUA coach Adam Lyons she interviewed at a conference. The conversation they had includes a sob story – probably mostly made up – about an ex-boxer who attends one of Adam’s courses to get his wife back. A mountain of a man begs in tears for advice from the madly skilled PUA coach. Maybe I’m just a cynical asshole, but Clarisse’s bullshit detector seems to be utterly broken.

    The update also includes a casual conversation about the treatment of social anxiety between the two. This is not just a conversation between two interested laypeople, like Clarisse portrays the situation. Part of his customers suffer from social anxiety, he makes good of money of them. So when he says, “for people who genuinely have a clinical phobia, there are basically two ways of getting rid of it,…” this is not just a theoretical interest of him. The thing is, he has no qualification whatsoever to diagnose or treat people with clinical phobia. When Clarisse describes their chat she should at least mention how problematic the implication of his statements are.

    Coming back to the aforementioned review, this uncritical non-judgmental approach towards the PUAs Clarisse met and described in her book is one weakness the reviewer mentions. For some reasons Clarisse is reluctant to even call out the clearly asshole-ish PUAs. One example: in an early chapter she describes a PUA named David, a coach, who lures her into his apartment and then pesters her the whole night for sex. First of all, this guy is extremely pathetic. Secondly, what he did is rapey. But Clarissa shies away from clearly calling the guy out on his behavior. The reviewer mentions the episode with David as well and her take on it seems fitting to me.

    Being empathic is fine, being uncritical is not. IMO, Clarisse is more than once missing the point where taking a firm stand is necessary. She’s reluctant to ask uncomfortable questions and to draw uncomfortable conclusions in an ill-advised attempt to stay neutral.

  10. bttf4444 says:

    Here are a couple Cracked links about gender roles:

    http://www.cracked.com/article_19780_5-gender-stereotypes-that-used-to-be-exact-opposite.html – BTW, I think this one really shows the dangers of replacing one set of gender roles with another set.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18529_6-absurd-gender-stereotypes-that-science-says-are-true.html – About to read this one, now. The other article led me to this one.

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